• Gsus4@mander.xyzOP
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      7 hours ago

      No, it’s russia. The whole point of NATO is russia. russia needs to have its invincibility myth shattered and imperialist tendencies restrained (Merkel tried this with trade and failed) by learning that they wasted millions of people and gained nothing. This is a hard learned lesson by most EU countries and is the glue of the EU. If the EU loses this, the lesson is that pacifism is a losing strategy and russia will just learn that war pays, so they will regroup and return for more in a generation.

      The US should have learned this too from Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan…and they do appear wary of starting new wars…even the neofascists.

      China…has a lot of nationalists, but so far has focussed on trade…hasn’t started any wars…fine with he EU. Could be a good partner to fight climate change, because the US and russia will never abandon their precious fossil fuels.

      • Joncash2@lemmy.ml
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        7 hours ago

        Oh God that’s a lot of words that China doesn’t care about. If you tell China that China’s next after Russia, yeah China’s gonna help Russia. Seems obvious. Why should China care why NATO?

        • Gsus4@mander.xyzOP
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          7 hours ago

          By humiliating and pushing out the pacifists, you ensure that there will be war. That’s it. The US is doing it, russia is doing it, China apparently also wants to do it, why not.

          • Joncash2@lemmy.ml
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            7 hours ago

            Really? You call a person literally threatening China and now sitting across the table a pacifist? You got a weird definition there buddy. I’ll take the side of the country that hasn’t been involved in a conflict for over 40 years.

            • Gsus4@mander.xyzOP
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              6 hours ago

              Yeah, nobody in the EU is going to war with China, but its tech dominance (as the US’s) poses a challenge to how the countries organize themselves. You confuse The EU with the west, but if the US abandoned NATO, would China abandon russia? I don’t think so. So China’s backstop of russia is a direct threat to the EU, whereas the EU is not direct threat to China without going through the US.

              • Joncash2@lemmy.ml
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                6 hours ago

                Did you not understand, that’s exactly the offer China is giving the EU in this statement. Abandon the US and we can talk about abandoning Russia.

                • Gsus4@mander.xyzOP
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                  6 hours ago

                  The EU can’t abandon the US first, more likely that the US would abandon the EU… damn…this is like couples’ therapy.

                  • Joncash2@lemmy.ml
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                    6 hours ago

                    Ok, we were talking about why China said what they said. It’s not some evil reason or an excuse to invade Taiwan. It’s simply if your going to threaten us as next, then we will support Russia. Whatever reason the EU has to not abandon the raving lunatic in USA is not China’s problem.