Israeli Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich says victory in Gaza will mean the enclave being "entirely destroyed," Palestinians leaving for other countries.
Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich implies he believes that blocking humanitarian aid to the Gaza Strip is “justified and moral” even if it causes 2 million civilians to die of hunger, adding however that the international community won’t allow this to happen.
“We are bringing in aid because there is no choice,” Smotrich says at a conference in Yad Binyamin hosted by the Israel Hayom outlet. “We can’t, in the current global reality, manage a war. Nobody will let us cause 2 million civilians to die of hunger even though it might be justified and moral until our hostages are returned. Humanitarian in exchange for humanitarian is morally justified, but what can we do? We live today in a certain reality, we need international legitimacy for this war.”
I honestly don’t understand how Israeli society expects people to interpret this sort of rhetoric and not come to the conclusion that Israel is a genocidal state.
Is there anyone pro-Israel reading this post that can provide an explanation? Is the argument that Smotrich and Netanyahu aren’t representative of Israeli society?
I almost feel like I am missing something. I am genuinely curious. I don’t understand what’s going on. Is this just bad faith arguments or do the Israeli supremacists not considering this to be genocide because of reasons?
I don’t think you will get a good faith answer so I will try to help. I don’t support what Israel is doing, but I am technically “Pro-Israel” because I believe in a two state solution. This means I am also very Pro-Palestine, just to be clear and we should be celebrating a Palestine independence day in 2025 with no excuse for why we shouldn’t be.
The explanation for the behavior and defense of Genocide is simple: willful ignorance due to unwavering support brought on by a massive propaganda campaign both locally and globally. It is very easy to fall for that sides rhetoric because of how complicated the history of the area is, and to be frank, most people aren’t intelligent enough to get into the conversation but do it anyways without a single fact to back up their arguments.
What is happening is no different than Russia, US, China, North Korea and the like. The majority in those populations follow the leader, allowing those leaders to commit atrocities.
The Likud party doesn’t expect anyone to interpret that rhetoric as anything else but what it is. At this point they are fully backed by the US in what they are doing and no longer give a fuck about global support because they don’t need it.
There is no good faith argument to support Israel actions, and anyone arguing for the Likud party is always on the wrong side. It will always be bad faith and in support of monsters.
I am not going to discuss US and I don’t speak Chinese/Korean, but I can comment on russia.
In russia, it’s not a “follow the leader” issue. Putin is symptom, not a cause. Russians in general believe themselves to be superior to the citizens of their former colonies and think they have the right to dominate them and destroy their culture. It is bottom up support for genocidal imperialism (there is wealth of research, both quantitative and qualitative, across multiple decades, using many different methodologies, that aligns with this statement).
I have seen many somewhat moderate pro-Israeli claim (online) that Netanyahu et al. aren’t representative of Israeli; is this a common view among moderate Israeli nationalists?
The russians “opposition” claims that it’s only putin, 1 or 2 oligarchs and Vanya the cow that are root of all problems. This is clearly bullshit, but that’s not what I am talking about. The argument has a measure of coherence in context of the aims and attitudes of the russian opposition (even if it is false).
What is the argument of moderate Israeli nationalists who don’t align with Netanyahu, Smotrich et al?
I guess I am trying to understand how Smotrich’s statement are framed by Israeli who maybe support a more aggressive posture towards Palestinians, but aren’t all in with Netanyahu and Smotrich. How do they expect observers to react towards to their country? Or do they explain this by claiming that everyone is antisemitic (be it in good faith or not)?
The reason I brought up the countries you aren’t willing to talk about is because the parallels are important. What is happening in Israel is no different than any of those other countries, and the “reason” you are looking for is simple and you seem to want it to be complicated. It isn’t.
Whether it is Russia, Israel, North Korea, China, USA, Iran, or any other hostile nation is unimportant and they are all the same when boiled down. You can claim it is entrenched in Russians, but I wonder why you don’t make the same claim for the other countries that are just as entrenched in their beliefs. Modern Israelis and Palestinians included.
Radicalized populations don’t just appear out of thin air, requiring intense propaganda and violence to work. There isn’t anything more to understand that the narrative is what it is, and it is repeated ad nauseam by ignorant populations because they think it will keep them safe. They don’t care what you or the “world” thinks of them when they believe they are in an existential crisis.
Whether it is Russia, Israel, North Korea, China, USA, Iran, or any other hostile nation is unimportant and they are all the same when boiled down. You can claim it is entrenched in Russians, but I wonder why you don’t make the same claim for the other countries that are just as entrenched in their beliefs. Modern Israelis and Palestinians included.
I don’t feel that I know enough about the other countries to make claims (excluding US where I have lived and travelled extensively, but I want to avoid bringing in US for now).
I would like to learn more about the polemical narratives of different Israeli factions. For example, while a strong majority of russians are clearly supportive of genocidal imperialism, they also claim that they don’t hate Ukrainians and it’s all because of NATO and Nazis and some other gibberish. And there is much more to it; imperialist revanchism, victimhood narratives, the notion of the “mysterious russian soul” etc.
I am just curious what the framing is in Israel and how local factions approach statements by Smotrich. For example, imperialist, great power revanchism doesn’t seem to be a relevant narrative for Israel.
I guess I should just start a post in r/Israel (assuming there is no equivalent on Lemmy). Although they might just immediately ban me.
Is this just bad faith arguments or do the Israeli supremacists not considering this to be genocide because of reasons?
They don’t care. Think of how to Turkish nationalists the Armenian genocide didn’t happen and the Armenians deserved it or how neo-Nazis deny the Holocaust yet want to repeat it; the arguments and logic all form around a core of hate and disdain for human life.
Smotrich also called for starving the Palestinians in Gaza.
I honestly don’t understand how Israeli society expects people to interpret this sort of rhetoric and not come to the conclusion that Israel is a genocidal state.
Is there anyone pro-Israel reading this post that can provide an explanation? Is the argument that Smotrich and Netanyahu aren’t representative of Israeli society?
I almost feel like I am missing something. I am genuinely curious. I don’t understand what’s going on. Is this just bad faith arguments or do the Israeli supremacists not considering this to be genocide because of reasons?
I think all these people suck personally
I don’t think you will get a good faith answer so I will try to help. I don’t support what Israel is doing, but I am technically “Pro-Israel” because I believe in a two state solution. This means I am also very Pro-Palestine, just to be clear and we should be celebrating a Palestine independence day in 2025 with no excuse for why we shouldn’t be.
The explanation for the behavior and defense of Genocide is simple: willful ignorance due to unwavering support brought on by a massive propaganda campaign both locally and globally. It is very easy to fall for that sides rhetoric because of how complicated the history of the area is, and to be frank, most people aren’t intelligent enough to get into the conversation but do it anyways without a single fact to back up their arguments.
What is happening is no different than Russia, US, China, North Korea and the like. The majority in those populations follow the leader, allowing those leaders to commit atrocities.
The Likud party doesn’t expect anyone to interpret that rhetoric as anything else but what it is. At this point they are fully backed by the US in what they are doing and no longer give a fuck about global support because they don’t need it.
There is no good faith argument to support Israel actions, and anyone arguing for the Likud party is always on the wrong side. It will always be bad faith and in support of monsters.
I am not going to discuss US and I don’t speak Chinese/Korean, but I can comment on russia.
In russia, it’s not a “follow the leader” issue. Putin is symptom, not a cause. Russians in general believe themselves to be superior to the citizens of their former colonies and think they have the right to dominate them and destroy their culture. It is bottom up support for genocidal imperialism (there is wealth of research, both quantitative and qualitative, across multiple decades, using many different methodologies, that aligns with this statement).
I have seen many somewhat moderate pro-Israeli claim (online) that Netanyahu et al. aren’t representative of Israeli; is this a common view among moderate Israeli nationalists?
The russians “opposition” claims that it’s only putin, 1 or 2 oligarchs and Vanya the cow that are root of all problems. This is clearly bullshit, but that’s not what I am talking about. The argument has a measure of coherence in context of the aims and attitudes of the russian opposition (even if it is false).
What is the argument of moderate Israeli nationalists who don’t align with Netanyahu, Smotrich et al?
I guess I am trying to understand how Smotrich’s statement are framed by Israeli who maybe support a more aggressive posture towards Palestinians, but aren’t all in with Netanyahu and Smotrich. How do they expect observers to react towards to their country? Or do they explain this by claiming that everyone is antisemitic (be it in good faith or not)?
The reason I brought up the countries you aren’t willing to talk about is because the parallels are important. What is happening in Israel is no different than any of those other countries, and the “reason” you are looking for is simple and you seem to want it to be complicated. It isn’t.
Whether it is Russia, Israel, North Korea, China, USA, Iran, or any other hostile nation is unimportant and they are all the same when boiled down. You can claim it is entrenched in Russians, but I wonder why you don’t make the same claim for the other countries that are just as entrenched in their beliefs. Modern Israelis and Palestinians included.
Radicalized populations don’t just appear out of thin air, requiring intense propaganda and violence to work. There isn’t anything more to understand that the narrative is what it is, and it is repeated ad nauseam by ignorant populations because they think it will keep them safe. They don’t care what you or the “world” thinks of them when they believe they are in an existential crisis.
I don’t feel that I know enough about the other countries to make claims (excluding US where I have lived and travelled extensively, but I want to avoid bringing in US for now).
I would like to learn more about the polemical narratives of different Israeli factions. For example, while a strong majority of russians are clearly supportive of genocidal imperialism, they also claim that they don’t hate Ukrainians and it’s all because of NATO and Nazis and some other gibberish. And there is much more to it; imperialist revanchism, victimhood narratives, the notion of the “mysterious russian soul” etc.
I am just curious what the framing is in Israel and how local factions approach statements by Smotrich. For example, imperialist, great power revanchism doesn’t seem to be a relevant narrative for Israel.
I guess I should just start a post in r/Israel (assuming there is no equivalent on Lemmy). Although they might just immediately ban me.
They don’t care. Think of how to Turkish nationalists the Armenian genocide didn’t happen and the Armenians deserved it or how neo-Nazis deny the Holocaust yet want to repeat it; the arguments and logic all form around a core of hate and disdain for human life.