If comfortable, could you or someone else who is trans try to explain the feelings behind transitioning to me, a cisgender? I support trans rights and maintain the philosophy of live and let live (dare I say, true individual freedom as a leftist); I’m just trying to better understand for my own sake.
More specifically,
Is it a matter of societal forces imposing masculine expectations because of your physical characteristics when ultimately, what you feel deep down are effeminate characteristics of the true you? (Or am I wrongly assuming that one is transitioning to another gender and not instead to non-binary?)
If yes to the first, if society was more receptive to, say, masculine women or effeminate men at face-value, would that have made you more comfortable prior to transitioning?
If no, I’m interested in better understanding how this sort of realignment for lack of a better word improves the feelings of gender dysphoria if it’s more an internal pressure than one imposed upon you by society.
In terms of physical attraction, are say MtF by the statistics more attracted to M or F, or is it split, are the bisexual/asexual/pansexual, or is data unclear? Is the aspect of gender dysphoria entirely decoupled from the notion of partner attraction (gay, straight, etc.)?
Hopefully I asked these in a way that is both respectful and makes sense. No pressure to respond, thanks.
explain the feelings behind transitioning to me, a cisgender?
SEX = Physical characteristics of a body assigned at birth
GENDER = The gender someone identified as along the gender spectrum, such as male or female
Transgender people experience gender dysphoria where they are born one gender but their body doesn’t match the gender they where born with say someone was born male but their body was female or they where born female but where born with a male body
Having a body that doesn’t match the gender you where born with can he debilitating for trans people
The closest way I could describe how it feels is to imagine someone body swapped a cis person into the opposite sex body, the cis person would feel uncomfortable in that body because it’s the opposite sex to the gender rather identify with
Is it a matter of societal forces imposing masculine expectations because of your physical characteristics when ultimately, what you feel deep down are effeminate characteristics of the true you? (Or am I wrongly assuming that one is transitioning to another gender and not instead to non-binary?)
I feel like my above answer would be a better explanation to this in addition to my following answer to this
I feel like this is a smaller part of the entire trans experience
Transgender people’s experiences aren’t really binary, it’s more of a spectrum
So I can’t answer for every trans person but personally as a currently closeted trans woman I do hate societal forces imposing masculine ideals on me
I may need more clarification on this question because in 90% sure of it but theres still the 10% I’m unsure about
I personally don’t like to apply masculine or feminine labels to my own characteristics because they are a part of what makes me and I don’t see them as masculine or feminine
yes to the first, if society was more receptive to, say, masculine women or effeminate men at face-value, would that have made you more comfortable prior to transitioning?
I cannot answer this as I’m closeted so haven’t physically transitioned yet
Bit off topic here but this does remind of how I don’t like the unrealistic portrayals of strong women in movies and media
A lot of movies and media like to potray strong women as Mary Sue’s or just write a male character but just change the sex to female
I feel this doesn’t portray strong women in movies and media realistically at all because it doesn’t realistically protray the experiences, feels, struggles, etc of women and there can be strong women who choose to be feminine and / or sexy as well
So I don’t think society is fully understanding of masculine women and effeminate men just as they aren’t fully understanding of Transgender people unless they go out of their way to properly study and learn theese things
I’m interested in better understanding how this sort of realignment for lack of a better word improves the feelings of gender dysphoria if it’s more an internal pressure than one imposed upon you by society.
I assune your talking about transitioning here
Trans people transitioning their body to align with the physical characteristics of the gender the align with can alleviate or get rid of the symptoms of gender dysphoria
In terms of physical attraction, are say MtF by the statistics more attracted to M or F, or is it split, are the bisexual/asexual/pansexual, or is data unclear? Is the aspect of gender dysphoria entirely decoupled from the notion of partner attraction (gay, straight, etc.)?
Personally I’m attracted to women which would make me trans lesbian or lesbian which some trans women who are lesbian have portmanteau’d into the term “transbian” but not every trans women will use the “transbian” term as it’s personal preference
I thought I was straight before I realised I was a trans woman
I also have this weird imposter syndrome (I don’t know if I’m using the right term) where it does feel weird to call myself lesbian because I’m still closeted and haven’t physically transitioned yet so I look down, see a male body and it feels weird to call myself lesbian even though I’m I know I’m a trans woman who just hasn’t physically transitioned yet because I’m still closeted.
I do also read and watch a lot of girls love / wlw / yuri content because I feel I can relate to it both because I’m a trans woman and because I’m lesbian
…
I’ve tried to answer your questions to the best of my understanding, sorry if I misunderstood something because sometimes it can take a while for it to fully click mentally for me
You’ve cleanly identified the central uncertainty behind a hell of a lot of “gender binary” discourse, but you’re also brushing against a flamewar about something called “transmedicalism.”
(Thankfully, neither one needs to be answered to get to the correct public policy outcomes of “let people be people” and “don’t be a sexist fart.”)
Transmedicalism can be defined as a belief that only those who medically transition are transgender, with anything short of full HRT and surgery as merely a compromise state and anyone not transitioning full time dismissed as a cisgender person playing pretend indulging in something less than.
Needless to say, there are strong opinions on both sides. Just as there are LGB cis people who dismiss T as a class needing respect and protection, there are T people who dismiss Q+ as a class needing protection or respect.
What makes the argument especially infuriating is the dearth of good statistics on non-cisgender folk at all. Between low sample sizes, huge variance between state law and ethnic acceptance, and often-insulting definitions, precise data is harder to come by for trans sexuality than f-on-m sexual assault.
For your specifics;
Social expectations are a huge part of gender identity. If I had been born decades later I very well might have come out as non-binary in high school, or might have instead been a full-time trans girl. And if I lived in a redder state, or had a more right-wing partner, I might still identify as entirely cis.
Maybe? Like I said, it’s really hard to know.
Data point worth noting : the cis folk who are closest to me are definitely cis.
With the.huge caveat about data noted above, my understanding is that trans men and women are about even on their split between which sexes or genders they are attracted to. The most prominent single group may be MtF trans women who were in a cishet marriage before they transitioned, but my impression is that about 25% are “gay”, 25% “straight”, 25% “queer”, and 25% “confused by terms.”
Thanks for this! Very helpful in improving my understanding. Transmedicalism seems kind of absurd to me out of the gate given the entire premise behind what I at least always thought trans meant as in “transitioning”; a state of flux if you will. What point along that state largely shouldn’t matter. Yet people attempting to justify their bigotry will of course latch onto extreme edge cases the likes they will never actually feel or experience themselves or are so trivial it’s irrelevant or scientifically baseless in the first place — the obvious one being sports.
Worth noting is that “transgender” is not a shortened form of “transitioning gender”, but instead itself derives from the same latin root as “transition”, as do “transfigure” or “transform”.
So, “transgender” is closer to “changed gender” than “gender in flux.”
(Which is similar to how “transphobe” or “homophobe” mean exclusion, as in “hydrophobic”, and not fear as in “arachnophobia”)
I’ll simply say that I’ve never associated with the typical male, mainly regarding the toxicity and competitive nature (I find it a huge turn-off). On the other hand, I’ve always had gender envy of women (clothing, makeup, poise), having always loved them and also wanting to be one. Being able to move away from being a guy has been THE most impactful decision of my life and only wish I had done it sooner.
Regarding sexuality, that’s dependent on the individual. I prefer women, so I identify as a transgender lesbian. I’m not sure of the statistics.
Thanks for writing this! This makes a lot of sense to me. I echo the same in terms of the aversion to toxicity and competitive nature (like a little friendly competition can be positive, but beyond that…). Here in America that shit is rampant especially among right-wing circles and it’s so tiresome. My wife said she was attracted to me because I wasn’t like her dad, like most other men in her life that fell into this toxic masculine competitive crap. I’d rather see more cooperative engagement.
Where I diverge is just my lack of interest or desire to wear women’s clothing, makeup, poise, etc. Don’t get me wrong! I have no problem with anyone along any combination of the sex/gender axis enjoying those things, but yeah just not something I’ve yearned for myself, which explains why I may not have gender dysphoria? I don’t know. But this has helped me understand why others do!
What Gender is not is sexual orientation. We describe orientation using terms relative to one’s gender (homosexual/heterosexual/bisexual, etc), but gender itself does not affect sexuality and sexuality has no role in gender.
The answer to this, like most identity-related questions, vary pretty significantly by the individual.
Some people transition because they feel more comfortable presenting in ways stereotypical of the other gender, others because they feel dysphoric with their body. Most are some combination of both.
Personally, I don’t feel much “social” dysphoria as I am (mostly) comfortable with my presentation, however I feel pretty intense body dysphoria, so my transition was primarily physical, with some lifestyle changes to fit in better.
It’s possible that dismantling of binary gender norms may allow more people to live comfortably without feeling the need to transition, but when you really deconstruct that argument, it’s not really useful. What matters is the reality of people’s experiences. In practice, that argument is usually used to discredit trans experiences as “made-up”.
It’s akin to saying, “People wouldn’t wear clothes (weather permitting) if we dismantled stigma around nudity.” Some people, maybe—it depends on the situation. Pragmatically, we live in a world where it matters, so it’s not a useful argument.
Regarding sexuality, there’s a significant lack of statistical data. There was some progress being made, but recent stigma has slowed scientific research into the topic. Personally I don’t think sexually can ever be fully decoupled from gender as a sense of self is often a significant part of sexuality. That being said, sometimes people change orientation when transitioning, sometimes they don’t. A combination of changing hormones and improved self-image can make a big difference in sexuality.
They assigned male at birth, they were wrong - oops.
Same here! I had to cosplay as a guy for 47 years. Yuck.
If comfortable, could you or someone else who is trans try to explain the feelings behind transitioning to me, a cisgender? I support trans rights and maintain the philosophy of live and let live (dare I say, true individual freedom as a leftist); I’m just trying to better understand for my own sake.
More specifically,
Is it a matter of societal forces imposing masculine expectations because of your physical characteristics when ultimately, what you feel deep down are effeminate characteristics of the true you? (Or am I wrongly assuming that one is transitioning to another gender and not instead to non-binary?)
If yes to the first, if society was more receptive to, say, masculine women or effeminate men at face-value, would that have made you more comfortable prior to transitioning?
If no, I’m interested in better understanding how this sort of realignment for lack of a better word improves the feelings of gender dysphoria if it’s more an internal pressure than one imposed upon you by society.
In terms of physical attraction, are say MtF by the statistics more attracted to M or F, or is it split, are the bisexual/asexual/pansexual, or is data unclear? Is the aspect of gender dysphoria entirely decoupled from the notion of partner attraction (gay, straight, etc.)?
Hopefully I asked these in a way that is both respectful and makes sense. No pressure to respond, thanks.
SEX = Physical characteristics of a body assigned at birth
GENDER = The gender someone identified as along the gender spectrum, such as male or female
Transgender people experience gender dysphoria where they are born one gender but their body doesn’t match the gender they where born with say someone was born male but their body was female or they where born female but where born with a male body
Having a body that doesn’t match the gender you where born with can he debilitating for trans people
The closest way I could describe how it feels is to imagine someone body swapped a cis person into the opposite sex body, the cis person would feel uncomfortable in that body because it’s the opposite sex to the gender rather identify with
I feel like my above answer would be a better explanation to this in addition to my following answer to this
I feel like this is a smaller part of the entire trans experience
Transgender people’s experiences aren’t really binary, it’s more of a spectrum
So I can’t answer for every trans person but personally as a currently closeted trans woman I do hate societal forces imposing masculine ideals on me
I may need more clarification on this question because in 90% sure of it but theres still the 10% I’m unsure about
I personally don’t like to apply masculine or feminine labels to my own characteristics because they are a part of what makes me and I don’t see them as masculine or feminine
I cannot answer this as I’m closeted so haven’t physically transitioned yet
Bit off topic here but this does remind of how I don’t like the unrealistic portrayals of strong women in movies and media
A lot of movies and media like to potray strong women as Mary Sue’s or just write a male character but just change the sex to female
I feel this doesn’t portray strong women in movies and media realistically at all because it doesn’t realistically protray the experiences, feels, struggles, etc of women and there can be strong women who choose to be feminine and / or sexy as well
So I don’t think society is fully understanding of masculine women and effeminate men just as they aren’t fully understanding of Transgender people unless they go out of their way to properly study and learn theese things
I assune your talking about transitioning here
Trans people transitioning their body to align with the physical characteristics of the gender the align with can alleviate or get rid of the symptoms of gender dysphoria
Personally I’m attracted to women which would make me trans lesbian or lesbian which some trans women who are lesbian have portmanteau’d into the term “transbian” but not every trans women will use the “transbian” term as it’s personal preference
I thought I was straight before I realised I was a trans woman
I also have this weird imposter syndrome (I don’t know if I’m using the right term) where it does feel weird to call myself lesbian because I’m still closeted and haven’t physically transitioned yet so I look down, see a male body and it feels weird to call myself lesbian even though I’m I know I’m a trans woman who just hasn’t physically transitioned yet because I’m still closeted.
I do also read and watch a lot of girls love / wlw / yuri content because I feel I can relate to it both because I’m a trans woman and because I’m lesbian
…
I’ve tried to answer your questions to the best of my understanding, sorry if I misunderstood something because sometimes it can take a while for it to fully click mentally for me
Mostly closeted late-identified MtF non-binary here:
You’ve cleanly identified the central uncertainty behind a hell of a lot of “gender binary” discourse, but you’re also brushing against a flamewar about something called “transmedicalism.”
(Thankfully, neither one needs to be answered to get to the correct public policy outcomes of “let people be people” and “don’t be a sexist fart.”)
Transmedicalism can be defined as a belief that only those who medically transition are transgender, with anything short of full HRT and surgery as merely a compromise state and anyone not transitioning full time dismissed as a cisgender person
playing pretendindulging in something less than.Needless to say, there are strong opinions on both sides. Just as there are LGB cis people who dismiss T as a class needing respect and protection, there are T people who dismiss Q+ as a class needing protection or respect.
What makes the argument especially infuriating is the dearth of good statistics on non-cisgender folk at all. Between low sample sizes, huge variance between state law and ethnic acceptance, and often-insulting definitions, precise data is harder to come by for trans sexuality than f-on-m sexual assault.
For your specifics;
Social expectations are a huge part of gender identity. If I had been born decades later I very well might have come out as non-binary in high school, or might have instead been a full-time trans girl. And if I lived in a redder state, or had a more right-wing partner, I might still identify as entirely cis.
Maybe? Like I said, it’s really hard to know.
Data point worth noting : the cis folk who are closest to me are definitely cis.
With the.huge caveat about data noted above, my understanding is that trans men and women are about even on their split between which sexes or genders they are attracted to. The most prominent single group may be MtF trans women who were in a cishet marriage before they transitioned, but my impression is that about 25% are “gay”, 25% “straight”, 25% “queer”, and 25% “confused by terms.”
Thanks for this! Very helpful in improving my understanding. Transmedicalism seems kind of absurd to me out of the gate given the entire premise behind what I at least always thought trans meant as in “transitioning”; a state of flux if you will. What point along that state largely shouldn’t matter. Yet people attempting to justify their bigotry will of course latch onto extreme edge cases the likes they will never actually feel or experience themselves or are so trivial it’s irrelevant or scientifically baseless in the first place — the obvious one being sports.
TY and YM.
Worth noting is that “transgender” is not a shortened form of “transitioning gender”, but instead itself derives from the same latin root as “transition”, as do “transfigure” or “transform”.
So, “transgender” is closer to “changed gender” than “gender in flux.”
(Which is similar to how “transphobe” or “homophobe” mean exclusion, as in “hydrophobic”, and not fear as in “arachnophobia”)
FWIW.
I’ll simply say that I’ve never associated with the typical male, mainly regarding the toxicity and competitive nature (I find it a huge turn-off). On the other hand, I’ve always had gender envy of women (clothing, makeup, poise), having always loved them and also wanting to be one. Being able to move away from being a guy has been THE most impactful decision of my life and only wish I had done it sooner.
Regarding sexuality, that’s dependent on the individual. I prefer women, so I identify as a transgender lesbian. I’m not sure of the statistics.
Thanks for writing this! This makes a lot of sense to me. I echo the same in terms of the aversion to toxicity and competitive nature (like a little friendly competition can be positive, but beyond that…). Here in America that shit is rampant especially among right-wing circles and it’s so tiresome. My wife said she was attracted to me because I wasn’t like her dad, like most other men in her life that fell into this toxic masculine competitive crap. I’d rather see more cooperative engagement.
Where I diverge is just my lack of interest or desire to wear women’s clothing, makeup, poise, etc. Don’t get me wrong! I have no problem with anyone along any combination of the sex/gender axis enjoying those things, but yeah just not something I’ve yearned for myself, which explains why I may not have gender dysphoria? I don’t know. But this has helped me understand why others do!
On your last question, from https://genderdysphoria.fyi/en/what-is-gender:
The answer to this, like most identity-related questions, vary pretty significantly by the individual.
Some people transition because they feel more comfortable presenting in ways stereotypical of the other gender, others because they feel dysphoric with their body. Most are some combination of both.
Personally, I don’t feel much “social” dysphoria as I am (mostly) comfortable with my presentation, however I feel pretty intense body dysphoria, so my transition was primarily physical, with some lifestyle changes to fit in better.
It’s possible that dismantling of binary gender norms may allow more people to live comfortably without feeling the need to transition, but when you really deconstruct that argument, it’s not really useful. What matters is the reality of people’s experiences. In practice, that argument is usually used to discredit trans experiences as “made-up”.
It’s akin to saying, “People wouldn’t wear clothes (weather permitting) if we dismantled stigma around nudity.” Some people, maybe—it depends on the situation. Pragmatically, we live in a world where it matters, so it’s not a useful argument.
Regarding sexuality, there’s a significant lack of statistical data. There was some progress being made, but recent stigma has slowed scientific research into the topic. Personally I don’t think sexually can ever be fully decoupled from gender as a sense of self is often a significant part of sexuality. That being said, sometimes people change orientation when transitioning, sometimes they don’t. A combination of changing hormones and improved self-image can make a big difference in sexuality.
deleted by creator
Yeah but, cosplay is fun, that doesn’t sound fun at all