A video, discovered on the cellphone of a paramedic who was found along with 14 other aid workers in a mass grave in Gaza in late March, shows that the ambulances and fire truck that they were traveling in were clearly marked and had their emergency signal lights on when Israeli troops hit them with a barrage of gunfire.
somehow this went from defending themselves against terrorist’s, to them becoming terrorists as well
Are you talking about the genocidal invaders? lmao.
They were never defending anything. Their victims just decided to fight back.
The state of Israel was founded by genocidal terrorists
Religion as a concept and religious states are nothing short of fascism. It doesn’t matter if the upmost entity is fictional, and the power is actually wielded by kings or popes and such, or if it’s Hitler, at the end it’s all the same: A way to suppress and mass murder anyone and anything that doesn’t please the Führer(s).
Zionism is a secular/atheist project. It was strongly opposed by religious Jews at the beginning and still is by many. They had to work very strongly to create some religiously painted zionism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism
You are blaming the side of ethnic Jewish people that mostly opposed Zionism for it. And especially blaming it on the religion is strange, as their motivation for opposing Zionism is religious.
I have the feeling that many people are just projecting their experiences and concepts of their brand of extremist Christians (Evangelical, hardcore Catholics…) onto Jews and Muslims.
Yes, it’s totally the christians double-death-sentencing 16 year olds for being homosexual and not believing in god, not the UAE government.
Religion as a concept should not exist. Genocides, mass enslaving and gassing are almost all results of religion and religion-like structures. It’s no wonder that countries built, formed and led by religions clash with other countries, as almost every religions literal only purpose is to 1) provide comfort for people in need and 2) establish and burn that batshit crazy believe in every humans mind, bind them to the leaders indefinitely and take over literally every speck of the earth, because only that religion is correct, and should rule. You know what other moves had that exact same signature, motives and effects? Correct, the NSDAP under Hitler. Which is why it’s literally seen as a “replacement-religion” - it combines everyone under one small group of leaders, with bullshit takes and erases everything else. The only difference being that religion (again, as a concept, not the people) is much more subtle, at least in modern times. But as we see, everywhere, especially in countries with religion (religious leaders themselves) as the defacto government, it still very much exists.
As long as religion has any power, and can therefore fulfill purpose 2, it’s literal fascism. We need to destroy each and every government and large religious organizations, remove any power from lobbies and churches, and provide all children with neutral information about everything, including religion. So they can themselves choose to believe in bullshit, so it may help them, but without granting anyone arbitrary power by those beliefs.
So you still claim that the crimes of secular/atheist organizations are to be blamed on religion?
Because the criticism you attribute to religiously painted states or organizations can be equally put to secular/atheist organizations.
French Colonialism was secular. The Nazis were largely Atheists. Stalin and Mao were notorious for slaughtering religious people and destroying religious organizations. B.P., BASF, DuPont and other large polluting companies… All secular. Zuckerberg, Musk, Thiel, all Atheists. You would have to equally demand the destruction of all Atheism by your logic, which then ends up in a fallacy.
Or you would have come to terms with the fact that presence or absence of outwardly presented religion does not have any indication as to what is in peoples hearts of good and evil.
If you believe in the destruction of Religion i recommend you to look at the work of Stalin. That is what systematic destruction of Religion looks like in practice.
Militant atheists will never cease to amaze me with the nonsense they come up with (and how they say “religion” but can only think of Christianity as an example).
What are you talking about? This is a comment in relation to an event that doesn’t have Christianity tied to it as a primary religion, and throughout world history it has been well established that religion in general will be used by those in power to accomplish their goals. sometimes those people are willing to kill in the name of said goals or beliefs.
Oh yeah fair enough, recently they use Judaism too.
Yeah but “Religion as a concept and religious states are nothing short of fascism”? “A way to suppress and mass murder anyone and anything that doesn’t please the Führer”? Setting aside the ridiculousness of this take in and of itself, it’s incredibly reductive. What’s the difference between the Abbasid Caliphate, the Holy Roman Empire and the French Empire? Well it doesn’t matter because they’re all nothing short of literally fascist!
ah sure, fair point. i kind of glossed over that lol. yeah… i wouldn’t necessarily agree with that assessment if its meant to be a genuine statement (maybe it’s an exaggeration born out of frustration?) but i can empathize with how the commenter arrived to that conclusion. i can follow the logic as an atheist myself who happens to be somewhat of an antitheist. however, i think it’s ignorant of anyone to say religion cannot be a source of good for a community or individual. religion is complicated, it isn’t a homogenous group of thinkers. you cannot have all concepts of it share one universal tenant, i.e. fascism, because there are hundreds of thousands of religions and many do not know about each other or the cultures around them. how could they all be fascist?
I don’t like cringy atheist but he’s right. Having a state religion makes you an ethnostate who threat people differently according to what one believe in.
Israel is an ethnostate because they are deliberately ethnically homogenous and view Arabs as inferior on an institutional scale, not because of their state religion. A state with a religious ruling class is called a theocracy.
I see what you’re saying because religion has societal and cultural impacts that reinforce specific behaviours, but not all states that have a state religion are actually theocracies in the traditional sense.
You’re thinking of a theocracy.
But the UK has a state religion, the Church of England, but they’re neither a theocracy nor an ethnostate.
Today they aren’t, but when they first broke from Rome/The Pope, they certainly were genocidal. The English purge of Catholicism was brutal, and then the power went back and forth, both in England and France, with a brutal murderous crackdown with each regime change, all based on Protestants vs Catholics.
Eventually they wore themselves out, and evolved to the place we are now, but today’s “peaceful” state religion is built on a foundation of murder, torture, and genocide.
That’s not what an ethnostate is, but either way that’s not the point. Treating people differently according to what they believe in isn’t “nothing short of fascism” and “a way to suppress and mass murder anyone and anything that doesn’t please the Führer(s)”. Having legal discrimination doesn’t make a state fascist, because that’s literally not what fascism is. It’s not even a useful way to analyze the behavior of states today or historically.
You: appartheid is cool actually.
It is litterally what fascism is. A strongman leader protecting the in group.
https://academic.oup.com/book/742/chapter-abstract/135399669
NoneOfUrBusiness is one of the most consistent anti genocide, anti apartheid voices in Lemmy.
Enough so that I recognize their username even without tags.
They’re making a point here, and it isn’t to justify Israels apartheid or genocide.
There are bad things other than fascism.
The fuck? No that’s not what fascism is. I mean even if it was that’s not what most religion-based states now or throughout history are, but even if it was that’s literally not what fascism is. The central tenet of fascism is worship of the state and active, escalating persecution of an outgroup to persuade an ingroup to willingly give up their freedom. Fascism, unlike most other state ideologies, does not seek equilibrium; it is always starved for an Enemy to exploit and persecute in increasingly harmful ways to satisfy the ingroup, which is why it inevitably collapses. This dynamic is core to fascism as a concept, and noticeably absent from most states throughout history—religious or otherwise—because running full speed ahead towards collapse just isn’t a smart way to set up a state.
To repeat: You said that fascism is a strongman leader protecting the ingroup, but that’s not true; fascism requires the strongman leader to go on the offensive in order to chase a made up vision of greatness for the ingroup and keep that up permanently.
… and this doesn’t apply to Israel?
It’s always been like this, but more importantly: The IDF aren’t (at least primarily) terrorists; they’re a Jewish Wehrmacht launching a war of extermination on the people of Gaza. Calling that terrorism implies that they’re equal to Hamas rather than subjecting Palestinians one of the worst crimes a state can commit.
Literally.
No points for guessing which party Bibi belongs to, and which currently holds power.
Always has been