I think he is still alive. Bukele made agreements with the leaders of all the major gangs in El Salvador to get them to reduce violent crime. In exchange he gave some money and concessions as to how prisoners would be treated. If it comes out that prisoners are dying in CECOT, the gangs are going to treat that as Bukele breaking their agreement and violent crime will shoot up.
Even if he’s still alive, though, there’s a 0% chance he, or anyone else Trump sends there, will ever come out of CECOT while Bukele or Trump is still in power. It would completely undermine so much about their regimes at this point. They are using CECOT as the ever present existential threat against opposition. It’s supposed to be a black hole people go into and never leave. They can’t let anyone out ever or it proves that people can get out. They don’t want anyone to believe that is possible. They can’t let anyone believe that is possible or it’ll breed massive opposition in both countries.
Bukele made agreements with the leaders of all the major gangs in El Salvador to get them to reduce violent crime. In exchange he gave some money and concessions as to how prisoners would be treated. If it comes out that prisoners are dying in CECOT, the gangs are going to treat that as Bukele breaking their agreement and violent crime will shoot up.
This agreement makes no sense. Nobody ever leaves CECOT alive so what are these gangs supposedly gaining by agreeing to this?
Nobody ever leaves CECOT alive so what are these gangs supposedly gaining by agreeing to this?
Loyalty from the gang members still inside.
Amazingly, gang leaders are very often able to operate even while in prison. And of course, there’s possible hits inside of the prison system that need to be “taken care of” by members inside.
Prisons are just an extension, basically, for gang life.
I take one issue who you’re replying to: Violent crime will go up, but first, there will be massive dollars on Bukake’s head.
The other user responded with an actual quote about the situation and it only discusses special treatment for gang leaders like cellphones, prostitutes, and cash payments to gang leaders for their cooperation. This seems like a reasonable thing for these gangs to agree to because they’re gaining all the benefits.
What still doesn’t make sense is why these gangs would blow up this agreement just because some prisoners from the US are being killed or mistreated. It’s not as if the leaders of some of the most violent gangs in the world are human rights advocates. It all just feels like disinformation from this user in order to con people here into complacency and thinking things aren’t quite that bad for the people being illegally held there by the US.
Except for the fact that these leaders are incarcerated alongside the gang members and freely allowed to talk to them as per the agreement. There’s no reason for them to jeopardize such a sweet gig to protect some strangers from the US. In fact they probably despise these people as they see them as traitors or potential rivals, so again why would they care?
All that aside, this is the same exact tactic Mexico tried with the cartels 15+ years ago, stop the killing and we’ll be lax on enforcement, and it blew up in their face before long. The same will happen in El Salvador too.
The US treasury said that an investigation into government officials and gang leaders revealed the secret negotiations. Luna [chief of the Salvadoran penal system and vice-minister of justice and public security] and Marroquin [chairman of the Social Fabric Reconstruction Unit] allegedly “led, facilitated and organized a number of secret meetings involving incarcerated gang leaders, in which known gang members were allowed to enter the prison facilities and meet with senior gang leadership”.
In addition to financial benefits for the gang members, incarcerated leaders received special treatment in the prisons, including access to mobile phones and sex workers. It said Luna also negotiated support from MS-13 and Barrio 18 gangs for Bukele’s national quarantine during the Covid-19 pandemic.
It sounds like the gang leaders who negotiated with Bukele’s regime are incarcerated themselves. And it’s not just prisoners in CECOT who are getting better conditions. It’s incarcerated gang members all over the country.
That quote is sparkly different from your summary. It states that gang leaders get special privileges like prostitutes and the ability to meet with their underlings in order to continue running the gang, along with government funding for the gang. What it doesn’t say is that conditions for rank and file prisoners have improved, nor does it state that prisoner conditions have improved nationwide. The quote actually makes sense why they would agree to this, but your assertions here don’t.
Do you really think some MS-13 gang leader is going to give up his only access to running the gang, cash payments from the government, and a steady stream of prostitutes because some prisoner from the US is being mistreated or killed? I find that pretty far-fetched.
This really reeks of disinformation in order to trick people into thinking things aren’t so bad in CECOT and complacency in that there’s some sort of safety valve that will automatically keep things from deteriorating into a straight up Nazi concentration camp.
No, I think that proving one guy in CECOT has died brings into question the treatment of everyone else in CECOT, including gang members the leaders of the gang do care about.
Those gang leaders have direct and unmonitored access to the outside world so why would anyone need to question their treatment when they have the ability to tell everyone exactly how they are being treated? Again, why would they give two shits about how some dudes from the US are being treated when they’re the ones enjoying all the privileges?
The leaders are only leaders because the unincarcerated members of the gangs listen to them and do what they say. They only do that because they believe the gang leaders have power and influence. Part of that, now, is protection for gang members who get locked up. How long do you think those leaders are going to remain leaders when everyone knows they made a deal with Bukele that Bukele isn’t living up to? Not long.
The deal is specifically made with these gang leaders to give them special privileges, so what are you talking about that “Bukele isn’t living up to” with regard to the treatment of US detainees? They’re a completely separate group that have made no deal with Bukele because they’re not El Salvadorian gang members.
My personal conspiracy theory based on absolutely no evidence is that they aren’t tracking who is who there so they don’t know where he is and obviously everyone would say they’re him.
I think he is still alive. Bukele made agreements with the leaders of all the major gangs in El Salvador to get them to reduce violent crime. In exchange he gave some money and concessions as to how prisoners would be treated. If it comes out that prisoners are dying in CECOT, the gangs are going to treat that as Bukele breaking their agreement and violent crime will shoot up.
Even if he’s still alive, though, there’s a 0% chance he, or anyone else Trump sends there, will ever come out of CECOT while Bukele or Trump is still in power. It would completely undermine so much about their regimes at this point. They are using CECOT as the ever present existential threat against opposition. It’s supposed to be a black hole people go into and never leave. They can’t let anyone out ever or it proves that people can get out. They don’t want anyone to believe that is possible. They can’t let anyone believe that is possible or it’ll breed massive opposition in both countries.
This agreement makes no sense. Nobody ever leaves CECOT alive so what are these gangs supposedly gaining by agreeing to this?
Loyalty from the gang members still inside.
Amazingly, gang leaders are very often able to operate even while in prison. And of course, there’s possible hits inside of the prison system that need to be “taken care of” by members inside.
Prisons are just an extension, basically, for gang life.
I take one issue who you’re replying to: Violent crime will go up, but first, there will be massive dollars on Bukake’s head.
The other user responded with an actual quote about the situation and it only discusses special treatment for gang leaders like cellphones, prostitutes, and cash payments to gang leaders for their cooperation. This seems like a reasonable thing for these gangs to agree to because they’re gaining all the benefits.
What still doesn’t make sense is why these gangs would blow up this agreement just because some prisoners from the US are being killed or mistreated. It’s not as if the leaders of some of the most violent gangs in the world are human rights advocates. It all just feels like disinformation from this user in order to con people here into complacency and thinking things aren’t quite that bad for the people being illegally held there by the US.
Well, because it would lead them to believe gang members are also being killed.
Except for the fact that these leaders are incarcerated alongside the gang members and freely allowed to talk to them as per the agreement. There’s no reason for them to jeopardize such a sweet gig to protect some strangers from the US. In fact they probably despise these people as they see them as traitors or potential rivals, so again why would they care?
All that aside, this is the same exact tactic Mexico tried with the cartels 15+ years ago, stop the killing and we’ll be lax on enforcement, and it blew up in their face before long. The same will happen in El Salvador too.
I didn’t make the agreement. It’s been widely reported on.
It sounds like the gang leaders who negotiated with Bukele’s regime are incarcerated themselves. And it’s not just prisoners in CECOT who are getting better conditions. It’s incarcerated gang members all over the country.
That quote is sparkly different from your summary. It states that gang leaders get special privileges like prostitutes and the ability to meet with their underlings in order to continue running the gang, along with government funding for the gang. What it doesn’t say is that conditions for rank and file prisoners have improved, nor does it state that prisoner conditions have improved nationwide. The quote actually makes sense why they would agree to this, but your assertions here don’t.
Do you really think some MS-13 gang leader is going to give up his only access to running the gang, cash payments from the government, and a steady stream of prostitutes because some prisoner from the US is being mistreated or killed? I find that pretty far-fetched.
This really reeks of disinformation in order to trick people into thinking things aren’t so bad in CECOT and complacency in that there’s some sort of safety valve that will automatically keep things from deteriorating into a straight up Nazi concentration camp.
No, I think that proving one guy in CECOT has died brings into question the treatment of everyone else in CECOT, including gang members the leaders of the gang do care about.
Those gang leaders have direct and unmonitored access to the outside world so why would anyone need to question their treatment when they have the ability to tell everyone exactly how they are being treated? Again, why would they give two shits about how some dudes from the US are being treated when they’re the ones enjoying all the privileges?
The leaders are only leaders because the unincarcerated members of the gangs listen to them and do what they say. They only do that because they believe the gang leaders have power and influence. Part of that, now, is protection for gang members who get locked up. How long do you think those leaders are going to remain leaders when everyone knows they made a deal with Bukele that Bukele isn’t living up to? Not long.
The deal is specifically made with these gang leaders to give them special privileges, so what are you talking about that “Bukele isn’t living up to” with regard to the treatment of US detainees? They’re a completely separate group that have made no deal with Bukele because they’re not El Salvadorian gang members.
Looks like I was right. He’s still alive.
My personal conspiracy theory based on absolutely no evidence is that they aren’t tracking who is who there so they don’t know where he is and obviously everyone would say they’re him.